The Plight Of Adult Children With Bruce Fredenburg And Carol Hughes

Adult children are often overlooked and forgotten when their parents divorce later in life. They are men and women, ages 18 to 50. Some are single; some married. Some have children of their own. All of them are in different stages of shock, fear, and sudden, dramatic change.

As adults, their parents tend to overlook, minimize or diminish feelings and struggles around their parent’s divorce. And their parents are more apt to rely on them for emotional, practical or financial support. Today we explore the impact divorce has on adult children, how healthy boundaries can assist both adult children and divorcing parents and other issues to be aware of as well as strategies for handling this difficult season for everyone involved.

With me today are Bruce Fredenburg and Carol Hughes, two mental health experts who have decades of experience in the divorce arena and have co-authored the book Home Will Never Be the Same Again: A Guide for Adult Children of Gray Divorce.

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Grab Bruce and Carol's book “Home Will Never Be the Same Again: A Guide for Adult Children of Gray Divorce”

For more information about Bruce Fredenburg, visit: https://www.cdsoc.com/member-profiles/bruce-fredenburg/

For more information about Carol Hughes, visit: https://drcarolhughes.com/

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Listen to the Podcast here

The Plight Of Adult Children With Bruce Fredenburg And Carol Hughes

Welcome back. We wrap up our year-long series on high-conflict divorce with a topic that you seldom hear discussed. It's the plight of adult children during divorce. When it comes to young children, rules and advice are often clearer, more available, and perhaps easier for parents to abide by. Adult children of gray divorce, on the other hand, tend to face a very different experience.

They are men and women ages 18 to 50, some single, some married, and some have children of their own. All of them are in different stages of shock, fear, and sudden dramatic change. Since they're adults, their feelings and struggles around divorce are often overlooked, minimized, or even diminished. Parents are also more apt to rely on their adult children for emotional, practical, or financial support. They're expected to take sides and often are placed in that difficult position to choose a parent to invite to a holiday or special event.

In this episode, we explore the impact divorce has on adult children, how healthy boundaries can assist both the adult child and divorcing parent, and other issues to be aware of, as well as strategies for handling this difficult season for everyone involved. With me are Bruce Fredenburg and Carol Hughes, two mental health experts who have decades of experience in the divorce arena and have co-authored the book, Home Will Never Be the Same Again: A Guide for Adult Children of Gray Divorce.

Carol has been a California-licensed marriage and family therapist and family-focused divorce professional for more than 30 years. She's assisted hundreds of divorcing families as a therapist, child, and co-parents specialist, divorce coach, and mediator. Bruce is also a California-licensed marriage and family therapist, board-certified in Clinical Hypnosis, and an EMDR therapist. Bruce serves families as a therapist, divorce coach, child specialist, mediator, and co-parenting specialist in the Laguna Hills, California area.

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Welcome, Carol and Bruce.

Thank you for having us.

We're very happy to be here. Thank you.

‘Home Will Never Be The Same Again’

Let's dive right in. I'm so curious about the impetus that drove you to write the book, Home Will Never Be the Same Again. What was that?

We've worked with divorcing families for decades. The more we worked with this population, the more we realized that they were invisible, which is what a lot of adult children of parents who are divorcing say. “My voice doesn't matter. What I feel and think doesn't matter. I'm tossed aside. Since I'm an adult, emerging adult, 18 years old, or 50 years old, people think I should roll with it and not have any feelings. I’m discounted.”

Whenever we know about a population that's unserved, as mental health professionals, that's our job to give them a voice. That's what the purpose of the book was, as well as educating the parents on how they can do a better job listening to their adult children and vice versa, the adult children listening to their parents.

Did you want to add anything to that, Bruce?

Beautiful. No. Carol covered it pretty well. Even though there has not been a lot of research on this, we did include the research that was available. Both of us have been licensed therapists for more than 30 years. A lot of this was things that came to our awareness through talking about that particular phenomenon. It's a worldwide phenomenon. In the US alone, 300,000-plus families divorce in that age group, 50 on up, every year, and it's growing. 300,000 families are 600,000 parents and up to another 600,000 children. 1.2 million people each year fall into this category, and there's almost nothing to help them.

Those numbers are so powerful. To anyone who's reading, I highly recommend Home Will Never Be the Same Again. It's so robust on so many different levels. We're going to be touching on a couple of the topics. As I read it, one of the things that struck me was how much is out there about how to be child-centric when it comes to your school-aged children, your young children, and the contrast of how little is available for children. I know even with my own clients, once they start touching on seventeen and up, they fall into this category that they're older, they can handle things, and the various things that you touch on in the book that can happen between child and parent.

It is profound when you think about the numbers that Bruce quoted. The divorce rate for these adults who are 45 and 50 and older is projected to triple by 2030. There'll be more adult children going through this same thing. Yet, in our culture, we have a mythology that says, “They'll roll with it. They'll be fine. What's your problem? You should be glad that they didn't divorce when you were 6 or 10.”

Clear Communication And Deep Listening

Divorce is so emotional, triggering, and painful. To imagine that once you hit a certain age, if it's your parents, none of that is going on when it's going on in such a complex manner. If you're tuning in, we're going to focus on three areas. One is on your communication. Whether you're an adult child tuning in or the parent of adult children, we've got some good information and tips for you. We're also going to be touching on boundaries, how to stay within healthy boundaries, some thoughts on family roles, and how to protect those. Let’s dive right in. When it comes to communication, what are some of the key things we want to be sharing with our audience?

The most important thing to start with is deeply listening. Your audience is tuning in, so they’re already practiced at that. The parents and the adult children need to focus on listening deeply, which means listening and not already formulating the response you're going to give in judgment or criticism. I want to say again that it goes both ways.

The parents shouldn't be diminishing, judging, blaming, and guilt-tripping the adult children, nor should the adult children be doing that to their parents. The research in our field shows that simply listening deeply to another person is part of the healing process. There's a lot of pain going on in these families, and they want to heal. Most people want to heal. Listening deeply is where to start.

There is a lot of pain going on in divorcing families. Listening deeply is where the healing starts.

That's a skill that, in general, people need to hone and practice. When it comes to being so emotionally triggered, any suggestions on how one can be aware of their listening habits and how to improve them?

The first step in solving a problem is to recognize it. The thing to do is that people should at least be aware of the fact that communication happens on many levels. There's language. One of the things we encourage divorcing parents to consider is that whatever they think of their spouse, it's not their ex anything. It's always going to be their child's other parent. That understanding changes the view of the relationship. They're entitled to have a different relationship.

There's also the tone of voice, and that can trigger us. When I'm angry, the sound of my anger will trigger the neurons in your brain to start vibrating. In a nanosecond, you'll be out of the conversation and into whatever your habitual defense is, whether it's to fight back, withdraw, freeze in place, or whatever that is. Those things can also be triggered by facial expressions.

We've all had that experience of being in a conversation with somebody we care about, and in less than five words, that conversation is going in the wrong direction. If we don't shut up that very minute, not only are we not going to get what we want, but we're going to be farther away from it. I don't know about you, but I didn't always stop talking the second I recognized that. Sometimes, we can't stop it at the beginning because it's happening, but the minute we recognize it, that's a good time to stop for a second and reboot.

I want to jump in there. One of the things in all of the coaching that we do is that we continually highlight how awareness, mindfulness, or that level of consciousness is always the first step. Even if you're not catching yourself right away, but you are more aware of it, you are moving in the right direction. For many of us, especially based on your family of origin and how you've communicated, this particular one can be a heavy lift. There could be a lot of habits that haven't served people.

As you're tuning in to Carol and Bruce, it is simply paying attention to your ability to listen. I know when I was younger, I wouldn't let the other person finish. My words were so important. I was one of those people who would jump in, cut you off, finish your sentence, or make my point. The practice of noticing and pulling out of that bad habit takes time. Yet, with all things divorce in this situation, there's a phenomenal opportunity for you to grow in the way you communicate.

There's something I was thinking of, too. For any other divorce professionals that are tuning in to this, it's important to be aware of their own mood or that sudden flash of irritation over something the client said, which may have reminded you of somebody who did you wrong in the past. When I used to do more speaking, I realized when I would first get up, I knew before I said a word, 10% of the audience loved me for no reason, and 10% hated me for no reason because I reminded them of somebody they liked or didn't like in the past.

If you're talking to someone who's already in stress and pain, that sense of tightness in your face or the look on your face for a brief second is going to make them feel unwanted, angry, or defensive. It's going to get in the way. It's worthwhile to take time to do those things you suggested, like read or practice something about mindfulness.

Addressing High Level Of Trauma

With so many of our audience emerging from high-conflict divorces, they live in a lot of contention, and there is a tone of face, eye rolls, and insinuation. When you are emerging from that dynamic, for both the children and the adults, as we’re talking about adult children, that could have gone on for decades. Any specific tips you have for those people? They're triggered. They've shut down. They’ve either imploded or exploded so often. Here we are talking about how to communicate with your adult child. Anything additional given that level of trauma that you would recommend?

Yes. In fact, one of our colleagues in San Diego, Bill Eddy, who is a former therapist and now a family lawyer, founded the High Conflict Institute, which you've probably heard of. We strongly and highly recommend going to his website. It is a treasure trove of information about how to deal with people who are high conflict and also how to maintain your center. Mindfulness is, for sure, an excellent practice for that.

He has a technique called EAR. It's an acronym for Empathy, Appreciation, and Respect. As hard and difficult as it is to give high-conflict people Empathy, Appreciation, and Respect, it does work. Also, the person who is more traumatized, having lived with a high-conflict person, the adult children or the soon-to-be former spouse, also deserves Empathy, Appreciation, and Respect, which are part of the deep listening that I mentioned earlier.

I'm so glad that you brought up Bill Eddy. For those of you tuning in, a couple of months ago, we interviewed two women from the High Conflict Institute. I believe the title of the podcast is How to Remain Peaceful, Productive, and Professional. They talked about BIFF and EAR. By all means, if this is resonating with you, go back and check out that episode. That website is brilliant and highly recommended. Thank you so much for bringing that up.

You're welcome.

This is hard for somebody who's experiencing their own trauma if they're dealing with somebody else who's in trauma. Divorce is trauma, and if they've decided to get divorced, that probably means they've been having some trauma in their lives going on. Some may have come out of early trauma. I've learned over the years that in dealing with people with trauma, the first thing they need is gentleness and kindness.

Sometimes, it's very hard to be aware of that if they're coming at you much harder than you want. Nonetheless, if you want it to at least have a chance of changing to be aware of being as kind and at least as gentle as you can. That doesn't mean standing in there for more abuse, but being aware that gentleness hardly ever makes a situation worse.

It's interesting that you say that, Bruce. One of the slippery slopes for the codependent who's been in this relationship is their tendency to be more compassionate toward the high-conflict person than toward themselves. That's part of the codependency. Whenever I hear that, it's so important, and yet it's a little bit of a tight rope for some people.

I agree.

I've often had a conversation with Carol. A world full of codependents would work well because they're all helping each other. When a codependent links up with somebody who's the exact opposite, then they have to choose.

The person who's been in a high-conflict relationship and is codependent, that person needs a lot of support. We're not saying to go be nice to the person that's been so abusive, but focus on yourself, because that's what the codependent typically does. They ignore self-care. Read everything you can about self-care. We have some tips in the book, too. For self-care, look inward instead of outward at that other person. There's a lot of healing that the codependent person needs to do to be stronger and more centered. It is a slippery slope. You're right.

People who have been in a high-conflict relationship are codependent and need a lot of support. They must learn how to focus on themselves.

Many guests said this over and over again. If you are going through a divorce, you've been in a high-conflict situation. Having a mental health expert, having a divorce coach, or having a support team that can help you stay on track and keep focus on your needs, and navigating this divorce and the way you speak to your adult children in a way that moves you closer to what you want rather than further away is incredibly helpful.

When you're dealing with a high-conflict person, as strange as it might sound to you, they feel they're the victim. That's part of the reason why the gentleness and kindness, even though it seems counterintuitive, since they're already coming in thinking they're the victims, then anything you do that's not kind and gentle is going to trigger more abuse towards you. It's not that you deserve the abuse. It's not that you caused the abuse. That thing that Bill Eddy talks about, Empathy, Attention, and Respect, works better than most things. Nothing works always. I want to say that, too. Nothing works all the time.

Setting Boundaries With Adult Children

I'd like to talk a little bit about boundaries. In most divorces, when you have a younger child, those boundaries are clearer or, more often, they're clear, and a parent doesn't overstep and cry on their child's lap or things like that. What are the key topics that we want to share with our audience about boundaries when it comes to adult children?

Boundaries go in both directions. First of all, it's important that the parents, even though their children are adults, realize that they're still in a parent-child relationship because your child will always be your child. Cradle to the grave, as one of the psychiatrists who developed attachment theory said. They're always your child. It is tempting to align with them against the other parent, use them as your confidant, use them as your therapist, use them as your dating buddy, or tell too many stories of why the marriage ended. All of those are boundary violations from the parent to the child.

In the other direction, the same thing can happen. The adult child guilt-tripping them for divorcing, telling them how wrong they are for wanting to date, trying to tell the parent what to do, feeling overly responsible for the parent, and trying to be the parent's therapist or confidant. It can go in both directions. None of those is good boundary-keeping in these situations. Bruce, did you want to add?

Yeah. All families tend to have rules. Some of the rules are spoken, and some of the rules have never been articulated, but it's how that family has reacted. Sometimes, boundaries that were appropriate at one time aren't anymore. An example would be there was a time you understood you weren't supposed to cross the road without holding your mother's hand. That was appropriate, but by the time you're older, dysfunctional is the word, I guess.

Sometimes, those things keep on going, the assumed right to direct somebody's life as a parent, as a child, or whatever. I'm reminded of this joke from Amy Schumer, the comedian. I like to give credit. Her line was, “I took my mother to a soccer game the other day. I wanted to show her what a boundary looked like. She said, ‘I don't see it.’ I said, ‘I know.’”

You could have a family where, for years, they were all a little bit on the boundary oblivious side. Healthy boundaries weren't part of their family dynamic. What do you say in a situation like that?

I say that we can always learn. Oblivion isn't necessarily a healthy spot, so that can be a challenge. That's a good point, Karen, that you bring up. They're used to crossing these boundaries every day, so now why is it different? It's especially different now because when a family is coming apart, as happens in divorce, and the adult children are losing that rock that they say has been their foundation all of their lives, there's a lot of pain, anger, and hurt. It can be exacerbated by crossing boundaries that they may have never been aware of.

Certainly, learning about these boundaries, working with someone like yourself, a divorce coach, a mental health professional, reading books, or reading our book, because we have a whole chapter on boundaries, this is the time to do it. The saddest part of divorce in so many cases is that families rupture. The bonds rupture, and they are never healed. That's a very sad situation because family relationships are forever. They're for a lifetime. Whether we're still in it or we have an alienated relationship, it's still a relationship, positive or negative.

The saddest part of divorce is the rupture of family bonds, which often never heal.

I would like to take a few minutes and talk about boundaries and what they are. I've been surprised at how often a client has no understanding or ability to articulate what a boundary is or what the value of it is. I often recommend the boundary books that are out there, boundaries with children, boundaries with teens, boundaries in marriage, and how, in order to have a healthy relationship, boundaries are vital. They can happen on a lot of different levels. I'm curious. You guys have a whole chapter on that. Could you define for our audience what a boundary is and why, in general, they're helpful to understand, set, and uphold?

It's important to keep in mind that boundaries are not to control other people. It is to protect ourselves. They didn't need more rigid boundaries at the time. They're all working in the same direction. When they're younger, parents do have an obligation, at times, to interfere with whatever their child's doing or the decisions they're making at that time.

For a lot of parents, it's hard to let go of that. The children, no matter what their age, sometimes it's hard not to go back to that default position. It is understanding that boundaries are to protect ourselves. It can be important to make some decisions for yourself, what's acceptable, what's not, and under what conditions something that was not acceptable might be okay for a little while, like an inversion. A parent needs additional help going through the divorce, maybe financial or emotional. That can be reasonable, especially if a child's been well taken care of by the parents.

If a parent were elderly and sick, we wouldn't say it's horrible that you're helping your parent too much. Assuming they're not impaired or infirmed, for a little while, that can be okay. It's important for families to have conversations that maybe they never had before, and probably never had before, of what's changing and what's okay with me and not. If they're not a family that's used to having those hard conversations, they're not automatically going to do it well.

If they want to have these good relationships with their parents, adult children, and grandchildren going forward, then it would be worth the investment to spend some time with a divorce coach or a family therapist who's been trained in divorce. People would be surprised at how much help they can get from somebody who knows a lot more because they've seen it more often. They don't have any skin in the game, so there are no feelings to be hurt. They can give them a good facilitated conversation. Carol?

I want to add, too, that boundaries are also about protecting other people, not controlling other people. It is to protect ourselves and other people. I'll give an example. If a grandparent has a lot of anger about the divorce and starts talking to the minor grandchildren who are school-aged children about how bad the other grandparent is, that's not a healthy boundary. They're crossing over and intruding into the well-being of the grandchild. We talked about abuse earlier. Acting out our anger on another person is a boundary violation as well. The boundaries go both ways, protecting ourselves as well as protecting others.

Both of you are saying it's not about controlling the other. I want to bring up this key part. Setting a boundary is step one. If you're an adult child, you might say to your parents, “I'm not comfortable talking about that. Please don't discuss that with me,” and then they keep discussing it with you. The upholding of a boundary is something I spend a lot of time chatting with my clients about because their tendency is to go, “Please stop. I told you to stop,” and trying to control the other one's behavior. If you're asking for something and you're not getting it, can the two of you speak a little bit about healthy ways of upholding your boundary?

In fact, toward the end of the book, a communication expert, Sharon Ellison, was kind enough to write a whole chapter about her War Without Words philosophy and training. She does a good job of giving some examples. For example, I'll use the one you gave, Karen. If we repeatedly tell the person, “Please stop talking about this. I want a relationship with both of you. I love both of you,” and the parent doesn't stop, then it is time for upholding the boundary, enforcing the boundary, and saying, “If you continue to not respect my boundary, I will leave.

I will hang up the phone, or I will not continue to see you for a while. I'd like you to go work on your boundaries,” or something like that. I'm glad you brought that up. Enforcing the boundary, if it comes to that, is part of our own self-healing and self-power that maybe we didn't have growing up. They didn't teach us that in the family of origin.

For those of you who are in high-conflict relationships, there's a level of empowerment that comes as you learn how to uphold the boundary and feel in control of protecting your needs.

I misspoke. Sharon Ellison's work is Taking the War Out of Our Words. It's not War Without Words.

I've had a number of scenarios where a parent is frustrated with their adult child and the way they're behaving. They compare them, like, “You’re being like your father,” or react to them as if they're the soon-to-be ex or anything along those lines. I'm not quite sure if that falls into a boundary category, but it happens. How would you address that? I understand the person who's triggered, and yet they have a perspective that's askew, and I know it's causing damage. How would you speak to that?

I'm thinking of the times that I've seen that happen or even experienced it. When I was growing up, if ever my mother said I was like my father or my father said I was like my mother, I knew from my own experience that that was not intended as a compliment. It made me feel bad about myself because I had it on good authority from both people that I was descended from. My parents were decent people, and they would do that.

That's the value of having these conversations with somebody who's not a member of the family or a respected member of the family. Everything is tied to everything else in families. A lot of times, if you admit to doing something wrong, it's like you've admitted to everything that went wrong in the world. You've confessed to the Chicago fire. That's hard for people to get out of that track.

Everything is tied to everything else in families.

I was thinking of a personal experience of my own with my father as he got older. My dad lived into his 90s. When he was older, there'd be times when he would ask me to check into something for him, like refinancing or doing something. I would spend a lot of time researching this, and by the time I get back to him, I find out he'd already done it with some salesperson who came to the door. That would repeat. That triggered my own stuff as a kid of maybe not feeling respected.

When I was over at my father's house one time, I was getting bothered by the value of another person there. He had a freezer in the garage, and it had one little thing of frozen vegetables in it. Electricity and freezers are expensive. I was astonished at that. I was starting to talk to him about it, probably not in a mean way but not in a kind way either.

My wife took me aside and said, “Why are you doing this now? Do you think he is going to change? Does it have anything to do with anything?” It is having that other person there who didn't have my triggers see it from a present-day, realistic perspective. I want to emphasize the value of going to see somebody who doesn't have all those triggers built into the conversation. That's important for those things you're talking about.

Speaking Directly With Adult Children

I want to segue into what the two of you do. As I was reading your book, one of the things that occurred to me was how often someone who's an adult whose parents are divorcing might judge their need to go and seek mental health support or seek therapy to talk it through. It's like, “What's my problem? I'm not getting divorced.” I would love for you to speak directly to the adult children about the fact that there is a need and the value of processing what's going on for them as well.

Thanks for bringing that up, Karen. It is something that we've woven throughout the book. Often, the value of that third person, a spouse or a friend, is the person who validates for the adult child that what they're experiencing is very real and they aren't going “crazy” as many say they feel. They say, “Let’s talk to somebody. I read about this book. I heard this podcast. A friend of mine went through the same thing. It's real what you're going through.”

The adult children report feeling, “This is surreal. I feel crazy. I'm not validated.” They succumb to our cultural mythology, because they live in our culture, that it shouldn't bother them. As Bruce is fond of saying, I haven't yet met an “adult parent” who is divorcing who doesn't have some pretty deep feelings, even if it's the person who's leaving and wants a divorce. Why should their adult children not have very deep, sometimes negative, and troubling feelings?

The ability to speak your truth without feeling like you are hurting a parent or taking sides is so important for your own processing and healing. If you're only talking to your siblings who might disagree with you and your parents, and you're always being cautious so as not to hurt, especially if you are on that codependent side, there is a real danger that can come out of that, isn't there?

Yes. Loss of self, which is not a fun place to be.

There are so many moving parts in this that people overlook. Most people, when they think of a divorce, think it's a legal matter and financial concerns. Most people who work with people who are going through divorce recognize that it's an emotional experience that has legal consequences and generally involves a certain amount of financial instability. Even the feelings about the fears and the anger are all emotions. Life is primarily an emotional experience. I always use the example that if I play a song on the radio that reminds you of being sixteen years old, your first thought will not be quadratic equations or conjugating French verbs.

That's so very true. Divorce is such an emotional storm and such an emotional quagmire. When we look at our country and see 2nd and 3rd marriages having even higher divorce rates, and then children coming out of divorce ending up divorcing, there can't be, in my humble opinion, enough healing for every individual in the family to break those generational chains to learn how to engage in healthy communication, healthy boundaries, and therefore healthy relationships so that we can begin to bring down those divorce rates.

Nicely said.

Well said.

Impact Of Navigating Divorce In Family Roles

Thank you. That brings us to this last piece, which is the impact of how you navigate divorce with your adult children has on family roles, and maybe how to avoid some of the pitfalls. If we could touch on that before we wrap up.

We already wove that in some of the boundary issue discussions. A role reversal is often very common. What we mean by role reversal is that the adult child becomes more like a parent to the parent, becomes their confidant, becomes their dating buddy, or becomes their caretaker. If the parent becomes infirm, that's valid. Those role reversals are not healthy for either the adult child or the parent because the parent has his or her own healing journey to go on, which does not happen.

We can't be the counselor, the confidant, the therapist, or the divorce coach for our parents. There's value in working with someone who's neutral and doesn't have the same triggers that someone in the family does. Bruce, you have a lot that you like to say about these role reversals and the roles in families as well. Would you like to add?

The adult children who are going through this, it's important for them to get some validation from us that these feelings are valid because of the loss of their unified parental unit throughout all of their life, or at least most of their life. Your parents had common goals for each other, for the whole family, and for what they were doing. Even if they weren't getting along, they each still had skin in the game for what happened to each other.

For the adult children, that's a big loss. They're not going to be a unified parental unit that they can deal with anymore. Most people don't ever articulate it in those terms, but it’s important. There's the disintegration of the family that they've always known. It's not that their family isn't going to exist. These people still exist, and they're major players in their lives going forward as well as in their own history.

It's also, for many people, going to result in questioning their own family history. “Is it all smoke and mirrors?” is a common expression we hear at times, or, “Were they  faking it?” or, “How could I have missed all this?” Imagining how it would be to have your parents divorce is a much different event than going through it, like any other traumatic life-changing experience.

If somebody dies, if I imagine how it's going to be ahead of time, it's shocking to find out how it feels when it occurs. Some of them will question, “Am I being selfish? There's something wrong with me.” Yet, if somebody died and they were in shock and lost, nobody would say, “There's something wrong with you.” If it's the death of your family, for a lot of people, it might even be like waking up in the middle of a dream that you're on another planet with three suns in the air. It's like, “What happened?”

There's this misconception that divorce is most devastating for young children. I want to share a little story. I sat my kids down when they were 4 and 6 or 5 and 7 to say I was leaving. I could break down and cry. I remember it like it was yesterday. It was so devastating for them. When they were mid-teen years, we were driving in the car. Their friends who were mid-teens were going through a divorce. I asked them, “Do you remember when I sat down and told you?” I had my sunglasses on, and tears were coming down my face. They were like, “No, not at all. It's got to be so much harder for our friends now, given their age.”

Fast forward to the adult children, I read once, and it may be in your book, too, when you have a solid family unit for twenty, thirty, forty, or fifty years, and it breaks. My kids had a solid family unit for five years, and it broke. I don't think we think about it that way. It makes so much sense if you are used to this family unit, even if it wasn't perfect for decades, that there's got to be very deep emotions when that starts to crumble.

Well said.

It reminds me of how nobody pays attention to oxygen until you've got your head underwater. I guarantee. If you put your head underwater for two and a half minutes, you will not think of your children's names or anything. You'll be thinking about getting that next breath. It's so precious we can't be without it for even a few moments, but we never give it a thought because it's always there when we need it.

That's how people's family structures are. They don't notice how much it's been a part of their life because it's always been a part of their life. It was dealing with the other stuff that was more obvious. It is shocking for adult children. They have had that sense of self, identity, and family traditions. Even if they were annual family fights at the holidays, it's still their life. To lose that is disorienting for a lot of people.

I love that analogy. That brought it home so solidly. Thank you for sharing that.

I wanted to add something positive about the changing family roles, especially with the holidays coming up. We're in a unique situation with COVID. However, if mom and dad have been the ones who always orchestrated the holiday celebrations, we could still be on Zoom if people aren't going to meet in person. If the adult children want to take that over and want to create new traditions for their family and for their family of origin, it would be wonderful to do so.

It isn't that these things have to stay rigidly frozen, like in concrete. We can be creative and create other family traditions, which will certainly be happening, at least that's what we're reading with the virus. Even going forward next year and year after, the adult children, if they want to, can create their own family traditions and invite Mom and Dad to come. The grandparents can see the grandchildren in their own home, not in the grandparents' home, because there is no more a grandparents' home as it was before. Thinking outside the box, so to speak, with these changing family roles can also be positive.

Episode Wrap-Up And Contact Information

Beautiful. One of my favorite sayings as we wrap up is that every upset is a setup for doing your own personal work. Whether you are an adult child tuning in or a parent struggling with all of these emotions, it's hard, painful, overwhelming, and an immense opportunity to take a look at your way of thinking, acting, feeling, behaving, and healing and refining what needs to be healed and refined. Thank you so much for everything that you've shared so far. Any last tips before we wrap up?

I like this quote from Henry Miller, the author. I read that one time, his nephew was leaving. His nephew was visiting. He wanted to tell his nephew the three most important things in life because it's good to know the secret of life. He told him, “There are three things, and they're the most important. Number one is to be kind. Number two is to be kind. Number three is to be kind.” Carol?

Please trust that there is hope in healing. Embrace that. Work on healing the family bonds that may have broken or been damaged because family is for a lifetime.

There is hope in healing. Work on healing broken family bonds because family is for a lifetime.

Beautiful. The book is Home Will Never be the Same Again: A Guide for Adult Children of Gray Divorce by Carol Hughes and Bruce Fredenburg. The foreword is by Bill Eddy, who is the grandfather of high conflict. How can our audience find the book, and then how can they reach out and contact you?

The book is available on Amazon by that title. It's available as an audiobook, as a Kindle, and as a hardback on Amazon. It's also available as an eBook on the publisher's website, which is Rowman & Littlefield. There are four different formats that it's available in. You can find us on the book’s website, which is HomeWillNeverBeTheSameAgain.com. My divorce website is DivorcePeacemaking.com. Bruce?

My divorce website is OrangeCountyDivorceCoach.com. Both Carol and I can be found on the website of Collaborative Divorce Orange County. That's CDSOC.com. You can find our profiles there as well.

We're part of the International Academy of Collaborative Professionals. That website is CollaborativePractice.com. You can find us there, too.

Beautiful. Thank you so much for your time, your wisdom, and the information. For those of you tuning in, grab the book. Check out their websites. If you are an adult child of divorce, I hope that this program has spoken to your heart, soothed you a little bit, and encouraged you to get the support that you need. Carol and Bruce, thank you so much.

Thank you, Karen, for having us and for the work you're doing as well.

Thank you for being kind enough to share your audience with us, because we want people to have this information.

It’s my pleasure.

Important Links

• Carol Hughes
• Bruce Fredenburg
• Home Will Never Be the Same Again: A Guide for Adult Children of Gray Divorce
• High Conflict Institute
• How to Remain Peaceful, Productive, and Professional
• Taking the War Out of Our Words
• Divorce Peacemaking - Carol R. Hughes, PhD, LMFT
• Collaborative Divorce Solutions of Orange County
• International Academy of Collaborative Professionals